423 : Berlibas - Sighetu Marmatiei - Teresva

Hello again

Here is a map of the region made in ~1910 by the Austrian-Hungarian authorities of the time:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/42-48.jpg

The small piece that interests us:



Now, the same area on Google Earth (with more zoom extend). With green I have drawn the missing rail links acros Tisa river. Red is the surviving track and blue the new line the Soviets have built:



This blue line I guess it had to serve the salt mines in Solotvina and some other industrial objective in Velykyi Bychkiv.

I have no ideea when the two bridges over Tisa were distroyed but I also found "suspicious" the metal part of the road brigde and I think it might have been brought there from somewhere else. The red paint might be just anti rust coating.
The new road bridge in Sighet is exactly in place of the old one, also visible on the 1910 map.

The other two bridge relics (in Luna la Tisa and valea Viseului) do not belong to rail bridges but road ones. Here they were in 1910:



Here you can find more maps from the same era:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

Again, thanks for your response.

I knew the 1:200.000 KuK maps, it always amazes me how precise they are considering when they were made :-)

Here is a piece of KuK 1:75.000 - actually a Czechoslovakian map updated in 1925:



Obviously bridges in Sighet and Bocicoiu are still there, altso the narrow gauge railway can be seen. Basicaly same as the 1:200.000 map you posted.


Then there is 1:200.000 Soviet military map. Both pieces of shown below are officially updated to 1978. They could be out of date "from the start", ie. even then, but the bridge at Sighet is still there (still no road bridge), and there is no bridge in Bocicoiu Mare.





That's pretty much all I know for sure about this. It would be cool to learn some more


Also the Panoramio photo of the Velky Bickiv bridge (which I posted above) and the fact it looks very much like the debris that can be seen in the water in near Bickiv, might indicate, two things:
a) at some point before the bridge was destroyed it was turned to road traffic,
b) that it was not destroyed on purpose (it's only speculation, but 1998 flood have made great damage all over the Carpatians).

Obviously the trace of the railway can be clearly seen form the train window when passing thru the Bocicoiu Mare, but this doesn;t tell much about when it was dismantled

The date of closing / dismantling of Sighet railway bridge might be somewhat traced by checking when the line near Sighet Camara was made "straight", without crossroads (I have no way of checking this, my Romanian is way too weak to ask any of the railway workers in Sighet).

As of last July on Ukrainian bank the railway towards the place of the bridge still existed (it was visible from the train). However I don't know if it was usable.


From what I know the line to Velki Biczkiv was meant as an alternative to the line on Romanian bank, and it was built in Soviet times. It seems that line was "formally" built up to Bila Cerkva - it the farthest passanger traffic station in this line that I know of (for example it's still on the timetable of UZ, despite the fact that no trains go there). The same story says that of line was not finished (not reached Rachov) because of financial reasons.

I also read somewhere that in 80's there were transit trains from Teresva to Rachov through Romania, on the wide gauge, only for local inhabitants, and only with some kind of permit.

I have done some research and here is what I found:

The rail bridge over Tisa to Slatina (Solotvina) was buit in 1892. The catastrophic floods in 1970 weakened its structure so bad that no longer was it safe to use and it was eventualy demolished in 1978. The track was wide-gauge.
The other bridge over Tisa, to Veliki Bucikov, was destroyed by the same floods in 1970 (it wad badly hit and it didn't survive the flood). It also had wide-gauge track.
So we can see that the soviet map of 1978 was up to date.
Aparently Camara Sighet was the only station in Romania to have all tree track types: wide, normal and narrow.

Here is an interesting link, in Romanian:

http://www.jurnaluldevineri.ro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3294:120-de-ani-de-la-inaugurarea-liniei-de-cale-ferata-sighetu-marmatiei--bocicoiu-mare

Thanks a lot for the link, and also for your time :-)

Are cineva o schema cu HM Camara sighet ? Fiind singura statie de pe reteaua CFR unde pot fi intalnite toate cele 3 tipuri de ecartament (760 mm, 1435 mm, 1524 mm) ma gandesc ca ae trebui sa aiba macar 7 linii, pentru a permite incrucisari de trenuri pe toate cele 3 ecartamente: doua linii de 760 mm, trei linii de 1435 mm si doua linii de 1524 mm!

Liniile cu ecartament 760 au fost scoase cu mult timp in urma .

Se stie ceva despre marfare pe acest traseu?

92dragos a scris:

Se stie ceva despre marfare pe acest traseu?

Nu circula nimic pe linia cu ecartament larg , e ca si inchisa .

Conform wikimapia configuratia statiilor ar fi: Sighetul-Marmatiei are 17 linii (din care 3 de ecartament larg), Camara Sighet HM are 5 linii (doua de ecartament larg, doua de ecartament normal plus cea de normala pentru zona industriala- CIL, fabrica de suruburi, poligonul de prefabricate), Bocicoiul Mare patru linii (doua de larg si doua de normal) si Valea Viseului 9 linii (3 de larg si 7 de normal). La statia Campulung la Tisa nu se poate vedea clar!
Remiza Sighet mai este folosita ?

Mine six years old pictures















Good night!
:AA10: :AA17: :AA19: :AA17:

Wow! Thanks Dave! Priceless photos!

Priceless photos!

Si una mai veche de la mine

Dispozitivul de linii asa cum apare pe wikimapia:

-Statia Valea Viseului: 10 linii (3 de ecartament larg si 7 de ecartament normal)
-Statia Bocicoiu Mare: 4 linii (doua largi, doua normale)
-HM Camara Sighet: 5 linii (doua largi si 3 normale- una din ele pentru zona industriala a orasului Sighetul Marmatiei)
- Statia Sighetul Marmatiei: 17 linii (3 largi, restul normale)
-Statia Campulung la Tisa: 4 linii ( largi ? normale ?)

Toate statiile sunt echipate cu instalatii SBW si semafoare (semnale mecanice).

Si pentru cei care sunt din zona sau au calatorit pe acolo as avea cateva intrebari:

1. Cat era VS in 1990 pe aceasta linie (pe cale larga si pe cale normala) si cat este astazi ? (sau pentru sectia Sighetul Marmatiei- Campulung la Tisa cat era ultima data cand s-a circulat ?)

2. Din punct de vedere a infrastructurii- terasament, poduri, podete, traverse, sina- care mai este situatia actuala ? Pentru ca linia sa fie repusa in functiune la parametri de circulatie din 1990 ar trebui lucrari masive de RK ?

3. Care mai este traficul de marfa pe aceasta linie ? Cele 3 unitati din Sighetul Marmatiei (CIL, Fabrica de suruburi, poligonul de prefabricate) mai folosesc transportul feroviar ? Care este starea liniilor industriale de acolo ?

4. Remiza Sighetul-Marmatiei mai este folosita ? Acolo ma gandesc ca ar trebui sa aiba si lacatus de revizie, deoarece din statia Sighetul-Marmatiei se formeaza trenuri de calatori si eventual de marfa!

Linia de cale larga care tranziteaza Romania ar putea fi folosita de trenurile de marfa ucrainene- in aceea zona din sud-vestul Ucrainei sunt putine legaturi feroviare care sa traverseze muntii Carpatii Padurosi!

De asemenea, poate ar fi utile niste automotoare de cale larga (Ucraina am vazut ca are automotoare noi de tipul "620-M/610-M"-pozele se gasesc pe railfan europe), care sa circule cadentat intre Berlibasi- Rachiv- Valea Viseului- Sighetul Marmatiei- Campulung la Tisa- Teresva- Koroleve- Diakovo- Halmeu, si cu legaturi bune pentru trenurile CFR de la Halmeu la Satu-Mare! In acest fel, atat pentru cei din zona Sighetul-Marmatiei care au treaba in zona Satu-Mare, cat si pentru micul trafic de frontiera (inclusiv comercianti de produse alimentare) aceste automotoare ar fi utile!
Se poate ajunge la o intelegere romano-ucraineana pentru simplificarea procedurilor vamale (eventual controlul vamal sa se efectuieze pe parcurs, in tren) si pentru trecerea fara viza si pasaport (pe baza unui permis de mic trafic), pentru cetatenii ucraineni din zona, iar Ucraina sa fie de acord cu tranzitul simplificat al cetatenilor romani de la Sighetul Marmatiei la Halmeu!
Un astfel de acord functiona inainte de 1940 intre Romania si Cehoslovacia- pe atunci linia Campulung la Tisa- Halmeu trecea pe teritoriul cehoslovac!

La Câmpulung la Tisa sunt 3 linii în dreptul clădirii. Dacă nu mă însel 1 e normală, linia directa 3 e largă, iar 2 încălecată. Mai exista o a patra linie normală care iese din linia 1 după clădirea staţiei.

La Sighet mă îndoiesc că sunt doar 3 linii cu ecartament larg.